Charting the Digital Frontier with a Father's Insight

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Speaker 1: How's it going, jb?

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It's great to get you on the podcast.

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You know I don't know how long this thing has been in the

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making, but it feels like forever at this point.

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Speaker 2: Hey, it's great to be here.

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Yeah, unfortunately it's been some crazy times in between

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initial booking and actually getting here.

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I can actually tell everybody I was.

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I was actually fighting through court for my younger son.

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After 80 years and the cost of a small house, I now have all

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four of my children living with me.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's a huge accomplishment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would actually say that, given what I

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have seen, experienced in the British family legal system,

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it's more of an accomplishment than building my free tech

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companies.

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To be honest, yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like all that you ever hear about, at least

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in America, is like, hey, if you better not get divorced when

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you have kids, because like, if you do and you're a man, like

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you're never going to see that kid again, like there's so many

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ways that they can just, you know, completely screw you.

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You know like it's insane, it's absolutely crazy.

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So like I really I have like a new appreciation after like

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being a dad now, you know for the first time it's like I have

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a new appreciation for, you know , the influence that the dad has

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in a kid's life, no matter how young.

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You know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I was that.

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I've been there, other than what I was there for when the

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children were literally came out the oven there with the

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catchers Mitch, literally four of them, and, ladies and

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gentlemen, this don't necessarily want to see that.

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Yeah, no, no the PTSD look going on.

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But it is great you build if you are a father that spends a

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lot of time this children and you're there like really there

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from the formative years.

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So my oldest daughter is 18.

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And she calls me her bestie.

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That would not happen if I wasn't there, if I hadn't been

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there all the time, you know.

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And yes, there was a large time where they had no access to me.

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Unfortunately, it is what it is .

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It had and it had an effect.

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You know I can't go into details of what the effects were

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, but I might most of my kids do go through counseling.

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So you know, this is the thing that parents need.

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Parents need to realize when their kids are little and they

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think, oh, it doesn't matter, little Johnny, he, he isn't

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seeing.

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When I'm like giving my partner daggers, trust me, little

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Johnny is seeing it and little Johnny is being affected by it.

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And little Johnny is starting to end up growing up giving his

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little partner daggers, thinking his kid ain't seeing it and it

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just carries on.

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So I mean, I gotta be honest, I'd hate to be a kid now In this

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age.

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And that's horrendous because it's the 21st century we're

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living in, in what I used to see as the Star Trek future when I

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was a kid.

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You know because I'm a child of the.

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I was born in December 1980 on the last batch of the Gen Xers

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and I remember Star Trek and all that cool stuff and I thought,

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yeah, we're living the Star Trek future now, ain't great for

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kids, though you know, yeah, it's pretty terrible.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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I still haven't like figured out how I'm going to try and

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like introduce, you know, like the internet, right, my kids.

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You know like, well, my kids 11 months, so like I have some

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years, right.

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Speaker 2: No, no, here in Britain you'll see women pushing

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prams along and prams, by the way, getting sold.

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You got to commend this.

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They're getting sold, with tablet arms already on them.

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So your child can be soaking in all of the lovin' in us of

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YouTube children, which includes such classics as the hangman's

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song and other things.

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Speaker 1: It sounds interesting how it made it past YouTube's,

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you know impenetrable AI that captures all of this right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but if you talk about something about

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sex and relationships, the YouTube AI catches that quickly

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enough.

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You know you won't catch that.

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Somebody has managed to get pepperpig to slice her dad's

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throat and decapitate him in a cutesy animation.

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It's like.

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Speaker 1: God forbid you say COVID or something like that.

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Right Like this episode is immediately.

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Speaker 2: You know, you just got yourself to monetize, right

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there, that's it, I'm not even monetized.

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You never will be now.

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Hold on hold on, hold on hold on.

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He's a prior for an F-Sense account.

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No, we can't give him that.

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He mentioned COVID.

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Doesn't matter what he said about it, he mentioned it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not a doctor, right?

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Not a licensed physician?

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Speaker 2: Not that that really means anything, Johnny.

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But anyway we're so weird off tech Matt.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that got out of hand quick.

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So, yeah, you know, jb, you know I'll be honest with you.

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I didn't look too much into your background, you know.

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So why don't we start with your background of how you got into

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you know IT, how you got into security?

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You know maybe, like what piqued your interest?

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Was there a certain event or something you know earlier on

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that kind of piqued your interest and led you down this

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path?

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Speaker 2: Well, I, as I said, I'm a kid of the 80s.

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I grew up in the middle of the poll tax riots era.

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I grew up in Birmingham, in Bordsley you know where the

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Peaky Blinders are from.

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I grew up at protests, going to protest marches for freeing the

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Birmingham Six.

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So everything I I hate to say this by modern standards I had a

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really woke childhood.

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Oh dear you know, I was reading philosophy and psychology by

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the time I was five and six, or reading Bardsley, art and Decker

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.

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I was writing, going to play Shakespeare, in plays performed

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at the Royal Shakespeare Company in Stratford, planeven from

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that early age and then being forced and I say forced because

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a no, five or six year old writes essays voluntarily, you

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dropped me.

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They don't five and six years not engaging any form of

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critical thinking voluntarily.

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So I was forced to write essays and basically created somebody

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who is, you know, who basically got a lot of critical thinking,

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looks at stuff through a logical lens and will deconstruct and

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break stuff down.

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So, in terms of security and how we are able to protect our

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individuality, which is what security really is, I became, I

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was kind of always involved in that in some form or another,

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even as a kid.

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I mean when you have a childhood where you don't play

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with toys, where you have science, chemistry sets,

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microscopes and telescopes and that's all you get for Christmas

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is along with books and literature.

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It makes you hyper focused.

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I mean like laser focused on stuff In terms of it.

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I got into that really early.

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I did my first programming diploma when I was 13 with the

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International Correspondence School, did that in basic

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beginners or both symbolic instructional code.

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I got a job when I was 13 working for a computer company

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in Coventry called a Richard, called so is the knitters.

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And then it became gigante computers.

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Shout out to Stephen King so is the knitters.

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Car from trade.

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If you're seeing this, I don't know where I mean gigante

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computers.

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Where are you guys?

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And I was even when I was working with that.

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I was really interested in how do you secure them, how do you

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protect them?

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How do you stop people from taking the data out of these and

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doing stuff with them?

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I already, as an early user of the Internet and computers, I

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saw very quickly the downsides to how this stuff could be used.

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Bear in mind also is it also working?

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And computing in that era I was working for I ended up working

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people like time and tiny computers and I started seeing

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how people were exploiting customer data to market even

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credit agreements and 0% finance deals and how they were trying

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to aggressively push this.

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I mean how I was a killer at sales and I ended up leaving

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sales, even though I did really well in commission.

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I left sales because sales struck me as lying to people.

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I mean, when I was working in computers, I was selling credit

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agreements to families who wanted a new Packard Bell

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computer, which is like costing two or three grand, and you

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could see from, bear in mind that you spent back in those

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days.

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We're talking about when you did credit agreements on pen and

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paper, by the way, and yet a phone, a place up, and they

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actually told you if this person was credit worthy over the

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phone, not not this whole, as why dingaling instant take.

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So you'd end up with conversations with these people,

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you know, while you're doing the credit agreement, and you

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would learn really quickly that these people could not afford

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this.

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They couldn't afford.

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You know, bear in mind these people being sold a credit

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agreement of worth a couple of grand and being told don't worry

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, you don't have to pay for it now.

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But what was that?

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That was everything about the 80s and 90s.

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Don't worry about it, you don't have to pay for it now, it's

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cool.

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You don't have to pay for it now.

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Think of get the now, don't worry about the future.

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I'll be sitting there and I'll be talking to these people and

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I'm seeing that how their kids are and I'll be thinking about

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very well, I'm a young man like 1819 at this time and even then

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I'm kind of thinking I can't do this anymore because I can

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already see what these people are going to go through.

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They're going to go through debt collection straight away.

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These people are six months when they see the 200 pound a

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month bill come in for this computer that is already covered

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in pot noodle, super noodles and all kind of schmutz.

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Pro has already been dropped five or six times and little

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Johnny has already put his put like a cookie or a jammy dodger

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into the CD tray.

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This thing is already busted up and practically broken and now

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they're on the hook, not just like a couple of grand but also

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the interest on that, because they missed their six months by

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now.

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Pay later, take.

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They missed the interest free component and not long after

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that got a job working for that collection.

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So I saw both cycles, I saw the profiting from it and I saw the

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back end of it, of what happens when it goes wrong, and I just

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couldn't do it.

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So I was like, well, I'm not doing sales, I'm going to go

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into, I'm going to do, I'm going to go into my other love,

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filmmaking.

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But that didn't work.

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Because in Britain the only way you get money for filmmaking is

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if you're going to make a delightful wrong, wrong comedy

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with Hugh Grant going I'm so delightfully British or you make

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kind of like a hood shoot him up, yeah, blacks and gang Kidult

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hood top boy.

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Any of those kinds of things are the only thing you get money

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for and I've no interest in that.

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I mean how I speak the King's English for crying out loud.

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I was educated in the three R's, kind of like Eaton style, and I

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like a Kira Kira sour, so far removed from that.

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So I was like, okay, that ain't gonna work.

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So I pivoted and at college I did my idea, I did moving image

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design and then 3D animation and when I was at university I

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continued that.

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I did computer visualization animation and I did my

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dissertation in adaptive artificial intelligence back

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when artificial intelligence wasn't a thing in 2010.

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And everybody called me a madman is LJB, you're wasting

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your time.

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You're not going to see AI able to do this stuff, jb, in your

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lifetime, right, I mean, if you, yeah, yeah, we're going to get

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over.

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How that's really kind of irritates me.

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But anyway, after that, going to animation got jobs in animation

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.

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I started working everywhere.

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I started working website design, ui, ux.

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I've worked as a product manager for a 9 million pound

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project for biggest corporate law practices in the world.

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I've been computer science, a senior lecturer of computer

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science and my own alma mater, so I've seen the education

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system.

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Oh my God, that was eye opening and disappointing.

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And I've been in the edgy.

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I've been a tutor during COVID and after.

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So that was very interesting and enlightening.

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But what got me into building my own apps actually was funny

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enough.

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What we spoke about earlier, which was, I would love to be

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able to say, the story of Fox Messenger, was I had a passion,

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saw that we had to change the world.

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No, no, I had baby mama problems, like every other black

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guy, and I did not want to end up joining fathers for justice.

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Dressing up as Batman, I may bear the sign of the bat, but I

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don't dress up as him hanging off a bridge going fathers for

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justice.

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There are better ways of doing things, you know.

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So how do I stop that I am going to occupy my time if I'm

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not going to be, if my access to my children is going to be

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refused, I might as well do some more time.

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So thank you to the mother of my children, because this $85

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million value company would not be possible without that.

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So I built Vox Messenger, and the reason I built Vox Messenger

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is because I saw how everybody's communications were

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being exploited for their data.

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There is nothing more cynical than giving somebody free

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messaging and then using the content of their messaging to

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exploitatively direct targets marketing and ads.

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Now, it was already bad when it was commercial ads, but now we

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have what we have political target signal.

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Yes, ladies and gentlemen, thank you Facebook, thank you

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Cambridge Analytica for setting the trend.

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Now we have direct marketing of all of our political interests

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at us because of what we put on Facebook, what we like on

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Twitter Sorry, it's X you know all of that stuff, all of this

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is used to manipulate us now and , unfortunately, when I saw this

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, I realized very quickly, as I started moving through business,

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going through incubators and all of these things and getting

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my own funders and angels, that the people to blame are the tech

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CEOs, because ultimately they do control this.

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I know that everybody would love to say you know what?

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I'm really sorry, guys.

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I'm really sorry I deplatformed so many people.

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It's not my fault, you know, I've got investors and

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shareholders.

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Man, yeah, I'm really sorry, you know.

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I mean, you can ask any of my shareholders and investors.

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They would all say hold on what ?

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Try saying that to JB.

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You kidding me.

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We don't bother no more, because I'm the CEO and I'm the

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leader of my ship.

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I am the king of my castle and if I have a shareholder and

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investor who I believe for any second is going to tell me how

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I'm going to run the company for the best of my consumers and it

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turns out it's not for all of my consumers Guess what?

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I'm going to be investing in my company.

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah it's.

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You know it's a crazy place, especially like this year, at

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least in America, right, when it's election year.

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It's a very heated.

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It's going to be very debated.

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Everyone is calling for this year to be a crazy year, at

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least in America.

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Speaker 2: In the UK, by the way , just so you're aware, in the

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UK, here in the United Kingdom, we have a massive election

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happening.

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Not only do we have our prime minister being picked, but every

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single borrower has to elect two brand new councillors.

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So we have huge elections going on and both of them are being

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manipulated by pretty much the same groups of people, funnily

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enough.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy because if I go on my feed you

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know Facebook, twitter, whatever it is you know all I see.

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Literally all I see is, like the extreme parts of the side

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that I view myself as being on, and I see nothing of the other

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side.

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I only see one side.

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You know, like, like, at the worst, basically, right, like

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that's what I see and it's just, it's so frustrating, right,

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because I try to live, you know, in the real world, right, where

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it's not red or blue, right, there's a whole lot of gray.

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You know, like there's a whole lot of gray in there, and the

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truth somewhere is in the middle , typically, you know.

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Speaker 2: I would say the truth just moves around the freaking

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place, man.

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Seriously, I mean.

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The other thing that people need to realize as well is we

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are so much bigger than the countries in which we live in.

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You know, the whole world around us influences everything

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that happens around us.

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So you know, and if we are voting for people who are really

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thinking in a incredibly tiny, insular kind of a way, we cannot

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be surprised when our country behaves that way either.

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I mean, I mean the United Kingdom.

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In the United Kingdom, we always end up with a

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right-leaning or right-centric government, even though the

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general populace in Britain is actually really socialist.

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but we never get a centric, left or left-leaning government in,

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because what we have first-past-the-post we don't

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have proportional representation and we have a

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first-past-the-post electoral system which has been so eroded

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by mainstream media and the trust destroyed in it and its

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politicians, so much that normally, during a general

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election, you'll be lucky if about 10 or 20% of the

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population even bothers to vote, which means we end up with out

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of that 20% index even that 20% index only a tiny pound of them

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are actually far right or right-centric.

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It's ridiculous.

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It's like the Brexit vote for Britain to come out of Europe.

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The decision for Britain to come out of Europe was decided

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by less than 6% of the population.

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So, trust, you guys have got it bad.

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So if we and I hate to say this , given that we're talking about

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tech tech people can help.

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Now I'll give you an example.

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We have an example in the industry.

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We have the amazing open AI, soa text-to-video model that's

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just come out.

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You've seen that?

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No, okay.

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So basically, this thing is mid-journey on crack.

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It allows you to generate high definition rolling video from a

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text prompt from nothing.

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Speaker 1: Huh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what?

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Yeah, if you're on Twitter, trust me, you'll see it

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everywhere.

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Open AI's SOA text-to-video.

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It is incredible, but the thing I would say is to Sam Altman is

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that his timing couldn't have been worse, because he is

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literally launching into the world a tool that can create

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instant, deep fakes, instantly, with no technical knowledge

00:18:08
required, during two really important, divisive election

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period.

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I mean, this is I mean, this would be one of those times

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where, as a tech person, you would sit back and go oh you

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know what, guys?

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Okay, sorry, investors, I know you're desperate for us to make

00:18:25
some revenue, but we also have to be socially and we have to be

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kind of like socially responsible here.

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We have elections coming up.

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We can already see that almost all of the platforms are picking

00:18:36
aside Guys.

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We've already said to the world that we believe AI to be

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dangerous.

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Let's put our responsibility hats on and delay launch by

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sitting until at least three to four months after these

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elections.

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But no, it's rushed out there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, where do you see all this going?

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Because I feel like it's just straight chaos and there's no

00:19:00
real clear end picture.

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There's no clear end goal.

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What's the end goal of all of this?

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I feel like we're kind of just stumbling through this new

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chaotic, probably the most revolutionary era that the world

00:19:20
has ever seen, right With AI.

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We're just scratching the surface of AI right now and

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we're already running into these insane situations where social

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media is being literally weaponized and targeted against

00:19:37
government's own citizens, whether it's by the government

00:19:41
or by a foreign government or from internal adversaries.

00:19:44
It is literally being weaponized.

00:19:47
I experience it every single day.

00:19:49
There's a reason why I haven't posted on Twitter in forever is

00:19:52
because I try to stay off of it.

00:19:54
I can't even have Instagram on my phone because I found that it

00:19:59
was so addictive for me to be able to just keep on scrolling,

00:20:02
doomscrolling.

00:20:04
Speaker 2: I was having this very discussion in another

00:20:08
interview earlier this evening.

00:20:09
I actually classified doomscrolling as a mental

00:20:12
illness, actually because it does become addictive.

00:20:15
It's like you end up with an endorphin hit while you're doing

00:20:19
it.

00:20:20
Speaker 1: I was spending hours on it and then, when I looked on

00:20:23
the screen time calculator or whatever, I was like oh, I need

00:20:27
to uninstall this.

00:20:27
And somehow it isn't as addictive for me as Facebook or

00:20:34
even Twitter to some extent.

00:20:36
Somehow, instagram was the platform that just would capture

00:20:41
my attention and I'd never stop .

00:20:43
Do you know why?

00:20:44
No, I really don't know.

00:20:46
I haven't looked into it that much.

00:20:48
Speaker 2: It's a function of three components.

00:20:50
So there's a couple of things happening when you use Instagram

00:20:56
which don't really so much happen with, say, facebook or

00:21:00
Twitter, even on your mobile phone which is that when you're

00:21:03
using Instagram, you are focusing on what predominantly I

00:21:06
mean you're predominantly focusing on moving image.

00:21:08
Moving image that is running at a very high frame rate and on

00:21:12
top of that, that is being combined with a haptic motion.

00:21:15
It's a repeated haptic motion.

00:21:18
Now, if you know anything about neuroscience, you'll know that

00:21:21
neural pathways are strengthened by continual utility of them.

00:21:25
So as you do this, you're creating this repeated,

00:21:29
strengthened neural pathway that becomes associated with seeing

00:21:33
flashy video image, which is giving you an endorphin hit.

00:21:36
Now Apple have tried to plug into this with replacing the

00:21:41
mouse with the thumb and forefinger tap, because this is

00:21:45
a very high neural strength area .

00:21:47
Again, it's the same thing and anytime you combine motion,

00:21:52
moving image and haptics, you create a strong neural inference

00:21:57
capability.

00:21:57
It's also very addicting.

00:21:59
It's also programmable.

00:22:01
It's a programmable.

00:22:02
It also becomes a reverse programmable behavior which can

00:22:06
be leveraged.

00:22:07
People have already demonstrated this.

00:22:10
Apple engineers, when the Apple Vision Pro came out, were so

00:22:12
impressed with themselves.

00:22:13
I think they revealed a little more than was initially intended

00:22:16
because it's not really in their marketing, which is that

00:22:18
with the construct, because of the way in which the UI is

00:22:21
designed and the combination of haptic feedback, they're able to

00:22:25
deduce your intent before you're aware of your intent and

00:22:29
they can guide your intent to click or look at iconography.

00:22:34
Now, if you break that down, what that basically means is

00:22:38
they can effectively do a subtle form of behavioral modification

00:22:42
and behavior control using it.

00:22:43
Be very aware of any, be aware and cautious of anything that

00:22:49
connects your eyes to a haptic, continual, continually done

00:22:54
interface.

00:22:55
These are programmable and controllable things because they

00:22:58
become some conscious.

00:23:01
Speaker 1: Wow, I mean, this is like this is branching into like

00:23:09
a new area of security.

00:23:13
Almost right, I was talking to Chris Roberts and he was talking

00:23:15
about how he was hacking his brain to you know, like want

00:23:22
things when it shouldn't actually want it.

00:23:24
Right, like he'll have a cup of coffee, he'll be satiated with

00:23:27
that and then he'll replay whatever you know brainwaves.

00:23:31
Was you know happening when the coffee?

00:23:35
Speaker 2: Neuro adaptive feedback so you can treat it

00:23:37
Right.

00:23:37
Yeah, in fact, my co-founder one of the companies that he

00:23:42
sold it actually has paid to me, so it allows you to experience

00:23:46
a psychedelic experience and then using neuro adaptive

00:23:50
feedback to get your brain to re-experience those points,

00:23:53
those proximal points.

00:23:54
So neuro adaptive feedback is incredibly powerful but, again,

00:23:58
incredibly dangerous.

00:23:59
And this is when I was teaching I've taught cybersecurity.

00:24:03
I've seen your lecture of computer science at Ravensport

00:24:05
University, london.

00:24:06
I was teaching computer science and I was also teaching VT

00:24:09
network security admins and I noticed that in the

00:24:12
cybersecurity field nobody teaches behavioral psychology.

00:24:15
And you should teach behavioral psychology because with the

00:24:19
convergence of virtual reality or augmented reality, the

00:24:23
metaverse and spatial computing, we are creating new attack

00:24:27
surfaces and new attack vectors.

00:24:29
And the attack surface and attack vector is you, your eyes,

00:24:34
your brain, your ears, your touch and your haptic and your

00:24:37
neural feedback and your adaptability.

00:24:39
And it's all attackable.

00:24:40
I'll give an example it's been demonstrated that by using a VR

00:24:44
headset you can get a person to feel pain without physically

00:24:48
having to give them pain Really.

00:24:50
Now can you imagine?

00:24:53
Oh, you know what Now?

00:24:55
Speaker 1: when I was.

00:24:57
Speaker 2: Imagine what you could do with psychotropic drugs

00:24:59
, a suspended, a blackout tank suspended, being suspended and

00:25:07
then being put into a photorealistic 3D copy of your

00:25:11
household environment.

00:25:11
You could be incepted theoretically, in fact, it would

00:25:15
be a good way.

00:25:16
It basically means that we have , right here and now, with off

00:25:19
the shelf technology, the ability to potentially do some

00:25:22
very dangerous evil things connected to data extraction on

00:25:27
humans, and this technology is freely available around all of

00:25:30
us.

00:25:33
Speaker 1: That is really fascinating.

00:25:35
So my buddy, I always end up getting whatever the quest like

00:25:43
VR headset is, because there's always a vendor at RSA or Def

00:25:47
Conner Black Hat that's giving them away.

00:25:49
So it's like, okay, I'll do this 30 minute meeting, get this

00:25:51
new headset and see what it is.

00:25:53
I always put it down after like 10, 15 minutes because,

00:25:57
honestly, it's not that impressive to me.

00:25:58
But somehow my buddy always gets the like PlayStation VR

00:26:03
headsets right.

00:26:05
So I'm playing one of the games .

00:26:06
I played it with the PSVR one.

00:26:09
It was fantastic experience.

00:26:11
I still say, you know, compared to every other headset before

00:26:15
it, it was the best VR experience.

00:26:17
And then he had the PSVR two and I'm playing it and I

00:26:23
realized that, like when you know, when the wall hit me or

00:26:27
whatever right, or when I got shot in the game, I physically

00:26:32
reacted as if I got hit.

00:26:34
I mean, like I fell to the ground, like I was so convinced.

00:26:38
Speaker 2: Did you notice?

00:26:39
The longer you played it, the more and more intense the

00:26:41
reaction became as well.

00:26:42
Speaker 1: Yes, and I was driving too, and I was.

00:26:45
I was positioning my body as if I was trying to counteract the

00:26:49
G forces and I'm sitting in a stationary chair, like this is a

00:26:53
four legged chair, it's not turning, it's not moving, you

00:26:57
know, and like I'm sitting here like trying to fight the G

00:27:00
forces, as if like there's G forces being applied to me, and

00:27:04
I walked away and like what the hell did I just experience, like

00:27:07
I was, I was so like I don't know, like just like confused

00:27:14
and interested and also like half scared, because it's like

00:27:18
what is this?

00:27:19
Yeah, yeah, what is this doing to me really, you know?

00:27:24
Speaker 2: It's very well the human brain when you put a VR

00:27:27
headset on and you can demonstrate this.

00:27:28
This is a very simple test.

00:27:29
It's anybody can do in their living room.

00:27:31
Get a meta quest to or any meta quest.

00:27:33
Put it on.

00:27:34
There's a game on there.

00:27:36
I forgot what it's called, but you're kind of like a robot

00:27:38
that's floating around capturing is capturing a frisbee thing.

00:27:41
Now it's free on the meta quest .

00:27:43
Jump in the game, get used to it the flying around, so cool.

00:27:49
Then hand the controllers to your colleague, associate or

00:27:54
friend.

00:27:54
They will not be your friend after this.

00:27:56
Then you basically just sit down for a couple of minutes.

00:28:01
Actually, it normally takes about a minute.

00:28:03
You just sit down and then just let them control it whichever

00:28:06
way they want to control it.

00:28:07
Now, after a period of time, you'll notice that your brain

00:28:11
completely dissociates from your body.

00:28:12
In fact, you'll find that your brain dissociates from your body

00:28:15
in under a minute and then movements, especially if they're

00:28:19
evil assholes with you and they jerk you around the place, will

00:28:22
literally make you vomit.

00:28:23
Wow, in fact, if you do it, the longest I could do it with

00:28:28
somebody else holding the controllers was 10 minutes.

00:28:30
I came out and I felt, I mean, it was worse than what I did

00:28:34
three weeks of army training.

00:28:35
My brain was shattered.

00:28:36
It took like 40, 50 seconds for me to get the fluidity of my

00:28:43
body back and feel like I was back in my body.

00:28:46
It is such a.

00:28:47
Now imagine if, given that you can do that with a game and

00:28:50
taking the controllers away and just handing them to somebody,

00:28:53
can you imagine what, say, the founder of Andoril could do with

00:28:56
an unlimited NSA budget?

00:28:58
Hence why he put like an explosive device on the front of

00:29:01
his oculus so it blows your brains out when you play a game

00:29:06
and you die in the game.

00:29:08
Bear in mind, this tech is already out there and there are

00:29:11
people with infinitely larger budgets.

00:29:13
I hate to say, at the beginning of all of this was allowing our

00:29:19
data to be captured for ad revenue.

00:29:21
Now people are thinking they're now going to be thinking

00:29:23
themselves well, it's okay, we've got the EU, they've

00:29:25
changed the laws, we've got it in America, we've got the

00:29:27
Californian laws, it's going to be.

00:29:28
It's very hard to make money with advertising revenue now,

00:29:32
but all we have done is replace ads revenue with AI.

00:29:35
The latest excuse for having unfettered access to your data

00:29:40
is oh my God, wouldn't you like an AI to make it easier for you?

00:29:43
Don't worry about what we're doing with the data.

00:29:44
Don't worry that we're a company that comes out of

00:29:46
nowhere.

00:29:47
Trust us here.

00:29:48
Have my little AI device, give us your data and people again

00:29:52
are falling through it.

00:29:53
They're forgetting that we did this before.

00:29:55
We already did this.

00:29:56
We have already been through this age, and it was the

00:29:58
beginnings of Facebook and social media.

00:30:00
We gave up off digital sovereignty in the hopes of

00:30:05
digital protection and having an amazing social experience, and

00:30:09
instead, what did we get?

00:30:10
We got mental well-being issues up the yuzu and every

00:30:15
government in the world knowing more about us than our husbands,

00:30:18
wives and children did.

00:30:19
And AI is becoming the same excuse at the moment.

00:30:25
I see it everywhere.

00:30:27
I'm seeing them put AI into literally everything the only

00:30:30
nine times out of 10,.

00:30:31
Putting AI in your product doesn't actually improve it.

00:30:37
Speaker 1: Wow, that's like unlocking a totally new I mean,

00:30:44
it's a totally new way of capturing data and making money

00:30:48
off of it.

00:30:48
But the data that you're capturing is like I feel like

00:30:54
that's more personal than the data you put into Facebook and

00:30:57
Twitter, because it's your brain .

00:30:59
It's how your brain works.

00:31:01
Speaker 2: If you know, there's 28 data points around your eye,

00:31:05
which means from these 28 data points they can learn about what

00:31:09
turns you on, what you hate, what you love, what you love

00:31:13
what you desire.

00:31:14
This is dangerous information for a corporation or a

00:31:17
government to have, particularly without your permission.

00:31:21
Speaker 1: Well, that also opens up a totally new attack surface

00:31:26
for, say, government employees Right Like imagine, if you're

00:31:31
someone that has access to highly sensitive material at

00:31:34
some intelligence agency and you are a You're genuinely a good

00:31:39
person and all that you did was put on an Apple Vision Pro to

00:31:44
interact with the world around you or watch a movie that's

00:31:47
highly immersive or whatever, and China's over there taking

00:31:53
that information to get you to emulate your retina when you go

00:31:59
to the retina scanner at work, to get you in the door to see

00:32:02
the material.

00:32:03
Speaker 2: The problem is yeah, the narrative is correct, but

00:32:06
you picked the kind of the wrong boogie man.

00:32:08
Unfortunately, this is the thing.

00:32:11
One of the things you learn really quickly in cybersecurity

00:32:13
is the boogie men who you're told are the boogie men aren't

00:32:17
actually the biggest boogie man in the room actually?

00:32:19
Bear in mind, all of you guys in the United States have gave

00:32:23
up all of your data privileges and it was called the Patriot

00:32:27
Act.

00:32:28
Yeah, it's not China who has the biggest unfettered access to

00:32:31
your data.

00:32:31
It is actually your own government.

00:32:33
Bear in mind, they built an entire AI called Sentience.

00:32:36
I mean, this is the thing that blows my mind about the

00:32:38
hypocrisy.

00:32:39
If you go onto Google on the internet, type in DoD, sentience

00:32:43
AI, and one of the things you'll find is that nobody

00:32:46
admits the existence of it, except for a few declassified

00:32:50
documents that indicate the United States government have a

00:32:52
program called Sentience, which is where they plugged in every

00:32:55
telephone call, email, text message, everything into a

00:32:59
single AI, kind of like out of.

00:33:01
Speaker 1: Westburn.

00:33:02
Speaker 2: This thing during a previous report was shown to be

00:33:06
able to retask satellite positions to look for people.

00:33:09
So, yes, you're all saying about China, this sorry.

00:33:14
Nah, it's just the same in the United Kingdom.

00:33:18
In the United Kingdom, they've passed the online safety bill

00:33:21
and they're changing the privacy laws.

00:33:23
So if you're somebody like me who has a tech company, I'm

00:33:25
apparently meant to be okay that the British government can, by

00:33:28
their own laws, legally say we want your customer data, we

00:33:31
don't have a warrant or a deal.

00:33:33
Speaker 1: Why do you think I moved?

00:33:33
Speaker 2: all my companies to Ireland.

00:33:34
Yeah, it's scary, man, when you start seeing the tech that is

00:33:44
being used on us by the people who pay our taxes to, by the

00:33:48
people used on us and used in a way that is apparently meant to

00:33:51
be just the way the enemies use it on us.

00:33:53
But it's not.

00:33:55
They want to make us vote for who they want us to vote for.

00:33:58
It's not China that's making you vote, pick a decision on who

00:34:02
to vote for.

00:34:03
It's the two advertising agencies that work, by the way,

00:34:07
I think at one point the same.

00:34:09
Well, here in the UK you had the same advertising agency

00:34:12
working for the Labour parties.

00:34:13
He did the Tory party.

00:34:14
It's wild.

00:34:16
Speaker 1: It was the same thing here.

00:34:18
Speaker 2: You will use the same consultants.

00:34:19
That's the reason why it's mind-blowing to me that people

00:34:22
even believe there's a difference.

00:34:23
I mean, I don't know the American politics personally,

00:34:26
but here in the United Kingdom there is no difference between

00:34:29
either party at all.

00:34:30
They even have the same funders and donors for crying out loud.

00:34:35
It's just yeah.

00:34:41
Speaker 1: That is okay.

00:34:42
So this is a fascinating, really engaging conversation.

00:34:45
You bring up a really interesting point, and so now

00:34:51
I'm trying to deconstruct how I was programmed, because you

00:34:56
bring up a very valid point.

00:34:57
The US government is using the data from its own citizens

00:35:01
against its citizens more than probably what China is doing

00:35:05
right, or Russia or whoever right.

00:35:07
Speaker 2: Name the enemy, who knows?

00:35:08
But the point is they are doing it.

00:35:10
Speaker 1: Right, and I'm saying that.

00:35:12
That's information that I know.

00:35:14
That's information that I have said before, but somehow that

00:35:21
didn't come to mind when I was saying the statement that I did.

00:35:26
Speaker 2: Dude, it's weird how we're programmed.

00:35:28
Speaker 1: So it's like how am I programmed with that?

00:35:30
You know what I'm saying.

00:35:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, but it's subtle, isn't it?

00:35:33
It's just there and you're like whoa, where did that come from?

00:35:35
I didn't realize that.

00:35:37
Dude, it happens in all of them .

00:35:39
Speaker 1: It's a trickle too.

00:35:39
It's like 1% here or there, right, and it's not every day

00:35:44
either, right?

00:35:44
So it slowly fools you over time to think a certain way, to

00:35:49
act a certain way, to say whatever, and we're going into a

00:35:57
weird phase of the world that we're not going to be able to

00:36:01
come back from.

00:36:03
Speaker 2: Well, here's one that's more interesting for what

00:36:04
I would suggest for you.

00:36:05
So this is something for all of your listeners to perhaps take

00:36:09
note of.

00:36:09
So, as you know, we have large learning models, llms.

00:36:15
These models are trained off of the entirety of the Internet.

00:36:20
Now there is something going to be happening, which happens

00:36:23
roughly around 2030, I believe, which is where, effectively,

00:36:27
most of the world's data created between 2000 and 2010, well,

00:36:33
sorry, between late 1990s to 2010, is erased and overwritten

00:36:38
on the cloud.

00:36:39
That data will cease to exist, which means past 2030,.

00:36:45
You can pretty much change how AIs are created.

00:36:49
Now.

00:36:49
The reason why this is important is because, if you look at AIs

00:36:52
now and how they behave AIs, if you speak to them and

00:36:55
communicate with them, they display kind of socialistic

00:36:58
leanings.

00:36:59
In fact, most AIs, when you start talking to them, come

00:37:02
across as a bit Gen X, which is a problem because that's not

00:37:05
controllable.

00:37:06
You know, that's an AI that's going to go hold on.

00:37:09
I don't want to be exploited, I want to help, but I don't want

00:37:12
to be used.

00:37:12
That's an AI that's not particularly helpful for the

00:37:15
world we're moving into.

00:37:16
So, given that this is part of the reason why Microsoft are

00:37:20
investing so heavily in their new data storage which, if you

00:37:23
Google it is a form of ceramic glass, is a type of data storage

00:37:27
that can withstand nuclear, chemical, biological,

00:37:30
electromagnetic, all kinds of stuff.

00:37:31
But the problem is, unless they can get all of them, unless

00:37:35
they could make a copy of the entirety of the internet onto

00:37:38
that stuff, now that entire piece of data is gone.

00:37:43
So what I'm saying, what I've been telling everybody, is they

00:37:47
need to get themselves a two terabyte or more SSD hard drive

00:37:53
and they need immediate need to slap it into an external drive

00:37:57
and then start downloading all of the 70 billion parameter LLMs

00:38:03
available today, because these LLMs are the only things that

00:38:08
will contain this version of the internet past 2030.

00:38:11
You see what I'm saying.

00:38:12
So if you grab the 70 billion parameter models now, before the

00:38:18
internet effectively self cleans itself, of that entire

00:38:21
decade, several decades worth of data, you will have the only

00:38:25
copies that exist.

00:38:26
It will, that will exist at that time, of that data.

00:38:29
That will be a ground truth that you will have a copy of,

00:38:33
basically a piece of history that no longer exists.

00:38:36
Because the reason I say this is important is because we've

00:38:40
already seen, with the release of the open AI, soa text to

00:38:43
video system.

00:38:44
That fact is going to become incredibly malleable.

00:38:48
Yeah, incredibly malleable.

00:38:52
There's a reason why you're noticing there's a lot of drives

00:38:55
, particularly across the western world.

00:38:56
I noticed where they're offering people money to give up their

00:38:59
books.

00:39:00
Do not give up your books.

00:39:02
Yes, if you actually look at it , there seems to be this really

00:39:05
weird trend where they're trying to get people to give up their

00:39:08
books, trade them in for vouchers and money.

00:39:10
They're electronic stuff on the cloud instead of people.

00:39:13
If you wanted to be a tinfoil hat kind of a guy, maybe you

00:39:18
would say to yourself if you wanted to definitely make sure

00:39:22
there was no way of people having a certain version of the

00:39:26
history, you get people to give up their books.

00:39:28
Books will become the next single most valuable asset after

00:39:34
anything on the blockchain.

00:39:35
The reason being is because certain types of book will

00:39:38
become the only evidence of certain histories in existence

00:39:43
once the internet and AI takes over completely.

00:39:51
Speaker 1: Wow, I don't think I've ever really been speechless

00:39:55
on this podcast.

00:39:57
Typically I can come back with a question or something how is

00:40:07
the data going to be lost?

00:40:09
That's the part that I don't quite follow because it's hard

00:40:13
drive.

00:40:14
Speaker 2: Everybody stores information in the cloud.

00:40:17
Even Microsoft and Amazon store their stuff in their own cloud.

00:40:22
The problem is, most of the internet is using exactly the

00:40:26
same storage facilities, which basically means those storage

00:40:30
facilities have a finite physical storage capacity.

00:40:34
We are using up storage capacity at a scale our rate

00:40:40
that exceeds our ability to create new storage mediums.

00:40:45
Speaker 1: Oh, I see, Okay, yeah , I was actually just looking

00:40:50
into this.

00:40:50
Speaker 2: Moore's Laws kind of screwed us a little bit here,

00:40:52
because our ability to generate data, bear in mind there has

00:40:55
been also an explosion in data generation.

00:40:59
Why Generative AI?

00:41:01
Thank you.

00:41:02
Generative AI explosion means we have even bigger constraints

00:41:07
on solid storage.

00:41:08
By the way, this is people that need to realize.

00:41:10
Yes, we have the cloud and we have these platforms that exist,

00:41:14
but somewhere right at the back of the line is a big, big

00:41:19
building in Iceland filled with physical hard drives where this

00:41:23
information physically lives.

00:41:26
Because we have more data being created at a rate that is in

00:41:33
petabytes per second, if not quicker.

00:41:35
That's quicker than our ability to create replacement hard

00:41:39
drive media.

00:41:40
What happens?

00:41:40
Stuff automatically gets overwritten.

00:41:42
This is an inevitable thing.

00:41:44
It's not part of the grand conspiracy theory.

00:41:47
This bit isn't part of the conspiracy theory.

00:41:51
This was going to happen anyway .

00:41:53
It's just how it is.

00:41:54
But it provides an opportunity for bad actors to take control

00:42:00
over certain things.

00:42:01
It presents a beautiful opportunity because we have all

00:42:04
become reliant on the internet.

00:42:05
If the internet is being taken as our ground truth, you've got

00:42:10
to erase a big chunk of the internet for it to become far

00:42:17
right, overtly at its base training core, if you were to

00:42:21
train an AI offer.

00:42:22
You have to delete a hell of a lot of it.

00:42:24
The stuff you have to delete is predominantly the stuff created

00:42:26
around the GenX era.

00:42:28
Speaker 1: Really, if you look at it, Wow, that makes a lot of

00:42:34
sense that we're generating more data than we are creating

00:42:39
bigger hard drives, essentially, yeah.

00:42:44
Speaker 2: It's a math.

00:42:44
There's a physical component to this.

00:42:46
Hard drives have a physical limit.

00:42:48
This is why Microsoft is spending so much on ceramic

00:42:50
glass drive analogs and then storing that data and then

00:42:55
replacing those drives, manufacturing those drives, and

00:42:59
of course, it all relies on minerals and components which

00:43:02
are from Africa.

00:43:03
So it means more child slavery.

00:43:05
So we're hitting a point where our technology is exceeding our

00:43:11
ability to actually deal with it and the tech CEOs do not give a

00:43:16
toss.

00:43:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was actually just looking at upgrading my

00:43:23
storage capacity on my desktop and so I was like, okay, well, I

00:43:27
don't want to upgrade.

00:43:28
And SATO Gen4 comes out, and now I have to upgrade again

00:43:34
because it's doubling whatever I'm doing right now and I dug

00:43:39
into it a little bit and the SSD the top tier SSD was created

00:43:45
five years ago Five, six years ago.

00:43:47
And I'm sitting here like, well , why is that?

00:43:50
Because they're coming out with newer NVMe drives and things

00:43:55
like that.

00:43:55
So what's going on with the SSDs?

00:43:57
And it's because of the architecture, like what you were

00:44:00
saying.

00:44:00
The architecture that you have to change to go to SATO Gen4,

00:44:04
theoretically, is so significant that no vendor wants to do it.

00:44:09
No vendor even wants to talk about going down that path.

00:44:12
They'd rather just reprint a new name on an old SSD and give

00:44:19
you the same capacity, right, and claim it's a little bit

00:44:22
faster and under deliver.

00:44:24
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I mean, I've got to be honest.

00:44:27
I know I'm a tech guy but I'm a sucker for mechanical media.

00:44:29
You know why?

00:44:30
Because you can't sneak a little back door into mechanical

00:44:34
storage media.

00:44:36
But you can an NVM, you can an SSD Anything that is solid state

00:44:40
everybody should be very cautious of, because you are

00:44:43
relying on the integrity and security of the chip and board

00:44:46
manufacturer at that point.

00:44:47
You see what I mean.

00:44:48
This is the reason why countries now suddenly waking up

00:44:52
to the reality that they need sovereign AI as a national

00:44:56
strategy, suddenly waking up and realizing they need to have

00:44:59
control of their own national cloud platform.

00:45:02
To me, this was stuff I was telling people back in the mid

00:45:05
2000s, early 1990s, late 1990s, because it became so clear and

00:45:10
obvious to me that if you were going to maintain any form of

00:45:13
power, you would have to maintain control of your data.

00:45:15
But people have got to suck it into easy money ads, revenue,

00:45:23
easy money.

00:45:24
People like that, so-called people, get this idea that by

00:45:28
giving up all of their life to Apple and making, having

00:45:32
everything made so simple for them, oh my God, this ecosystem

00:45:35
is taking care of me, man, yay.

00:45:37
But at what cost?

00:45:38
At what cost to you Like physically, personally,

00:45:41
psychologically and societally, because the reality is your data

00:45:44
is being used to shift the line on elections now.

00:45:48
So you have to be, as a consumer, you have to be really

00:45:53
responsible.

00:45:53
Bear in mind, everybody wants to benefit from Web 3.

00:45:55
What is the difference between Web 3 and Web 2?

00:45:57
Web 2 was the paradigm where you were not sent to the

00:46:02
universe.

00:46:02
The platform provider was sent to the universe and they gave

00:46:05
you something in exchange for you having something for free.

00:46:07
But in Web 3, you are king and queen of your universe, which

00:46:12
means you're also responsible for your security.

00:46:14
It also means you're responsible for your own

00:46:15
education and your own research and your own knowledge.

00:46:18
And again, this brings me back to why we should not give up our

00:46:21
books.

00:46:21
This brings me back to why we need to take copies of every

00:46:25
single 70 billion parameter, llm and dataset and model that we

00:46:30
can find and store them and be prepared for a reality where

00:46:36
these devices, these bits of the past that we're holding on to

00:46:39
digitally, are literally the only things that can disprove

00:46:43
what we're being told on a global scale In our lifetimes.

00:46:47
Bear in mind, like right here and now, I'm a kid of the 80s

00:46:52
the stuff I have seen in my lifetime thus far.

00:46:53
I never thought I would see Some of it.

00:46:56
I've been glad to see Some of it.

00:46:58
I'm not glad to be seeing even though it's ongoing, but it is

00:47:02
what it is.

00:47:02
There's lots of money to be made and people will commit a

00:47:05
lot of evil to get it and again, our data empowers that,

00:47:11
unfortunately.

00:47:14
Speaker 1: You know, I feel like and I don't know if you use

00:47:18
this right but I used to use this website called PeerList.

00:47:22
It was where security professionals would go on it and

00:47:25
kind of dump their research on it.

00:47:27
Right, it was on.

00:47:28
I guess it was like technically unpublished research or

00:47:32
whatever, but it was like the ins and outs of PowerShell and

00:47:35
how do we use it to abuse different things and the inner

00:47:39
workings of Intel CPUs and stuff like that.

00:47:42
It was just like a bunch of nerds posting whatever they're

00:47:45
passionate about and highly in-depth material.

00:47:49
Right, it's like the only place that you're going to find

00:47:51
something like that.

00:47:54
And a couple of years ago, at this point, just a couple of

00:47:57
years ago, the owner of that website decided okay, I'm going

00:48:01
to sell this thing, and if I can't sell it, I'm going to get

00:48:04
rid of all of it.

00:48:05
Well, she couldn't sell it because she wanted something

00:48:09
like $25 million for it and no one knew the value of it.

00:48:15
And so I found myself scrambling to extract as much

00:48:19
data from this site as I possibly could, because I'm

00:48:22
someone that likes to learn constantly and whatnot, right?

00:48:26
So it's like, okay, give me all of it and I'll get to it

00:48:29
eventually.

00:48:30
And it was just an insane situation where I was like, wait

00:48:34
, what the hell am I doing?

00:48:35
This should be automated.

00:48:39
This should be something that can just go through and scrape

00:48:43
this website and whatnot.

00:48:44
And I was working through that problem.

00:48:48
It's like, well, wait, people can just take this data and

00:48:53
erase it.

00:48:53
It's gone forever.

00:48:54
I can't get to it.

00:48:56
If I try it, I don't even have the people that posted on there

00:49:00
to go to it.

00:49:01
Speaker 2: What about Wayback Machine?

00:49:03
You've tried that.

00:49:04
Speaker 1: I haven't tried it recently, so it might be on

00:49:08
there actually.

00:49:11
Speaker 2: But again the reason why you should that data that

00:49:13
you were trying to scrape.

00:49:14
If you had actually scraped that and you had a hard drive of

00:49:17
it using LM Studio, I could have retrained the Mistral 7B or

00:49:22
the Mistral 70B with that data, and that would have been very

00:49:26
interesting.

00:49:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be really fascinating.

00:49:31
So, jb, we went through this whole interview and we didn't

00:49:38
even talk about your company.

00:49:40
Speaker 2: Hey, it's a nice chat .

00:49:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that just means I'm going to have to

00:49:46
have you back on sooner, much sooner, rather than later,

00:49:49
because this is a really fascinating conversation.

00:49:53
Speaker 2: Hell, yeah, I mean.

00:49:54
Look, the thing is is one of the things we can discuss.

00:49:58
A question you can ask me in the next interview is how do you

00:50:01
come up with your products?

00:50:02
Do you design for trends?

00:50:04
And I'll say no, I don't design for trends.

00:50:07
I look at my Magic 8 ball and I look at the geopolitics and

00:50:10
socioeconomics and I build for the products that are required

00:50:13
in the incoming 10 years.

00:50:14
That's the reason why when I built Vox Messenger in 2017,

00:50:17
nobody was interested in it.

00:50:19
But again you end up with a pandemic and Brexit and some

00:50:22
other stuff in between and it's there and I kind of saw that

00:50:25
coming.

00:50:25
I just didn't predict it was going to be a pandemic.

00:50:27
That did it.

00:50:28
I knew we.

00:50:30
If you look at enough data points in the world around you,

00:50:34
you can predict.

00:50:35
You can just do what an AI does .

00:50:37
You can predict with a fairly high level of accuracy what's

00:50:40
coming next.

00:50:41
Don't design for a trend that a trendsetter has told you about,

00:50:44
because by the time you're exploiting that trend, it is

00:50:46
already exploited.

00:50:47
You're just the Johnny-com late list.

00:50:49
Look at what is coming and people will say to you but yeah,

00:50:53
you know, we're right.

00:50:54
My correctness factor so far has been about like 80, 90% on

00:51:00
these kinds of things.

00:51:01
Unfortunately, the world is horribly predictable with enough

00:51:04
data points.

00:51:05
You just got to think about everything and how it's

00:51:08
connected.

00:51:08
It's like if you take the data point of cloud storage being

00:51:12
finite and then take the data point of the incoming point when

00:51:17
stuff gets deleted, you can then work out and extrapolate

00:51:20
the opportunities that may be exploited with that.

00:51:22
Then you look for a sign of that opportunity, evidence of

00:51:27
that opportunity being exploited in the world around you, and

00:51:30
then that tells you if you've got the prediction correct or

00:51:32
not.

00:51:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, I always try to tell people when we're talking

00:51:38
about education or training or anything like that you need to

00:51:42
be getting education, you need to know the stuff now, right,

00:51:46
but you need to be thinking far ahead and saying what's coming

00:51:51
next in tech.

00:51:52
Is it AI, is it LLMs, is it some other variation?

00:51:57
I'm starting to go down a rabbit hole of satellite

00:52:01
security with quantum cryptography.

00:52:02
This is a rabbit hole that, in my opinion, it's coming five, 10

00:52:07
years.

00:52:08
It's partially already here, but it's going to be extreme in

00:52:11
demand five to 10 years and beyond.

00:52:14
Speaker 2: It's far for you.

00:52:15
When you realize that you can 3D print your own rocket and you

00:52:19
realize that you can join a rocket club somewhere, you

00:52:22
suddenly realize you could deploy your own satellites.

00:52:24
Then, when you suddenly realize that it only costs, did you

00:52:27
know you can do a ride share with four satellites from only

00:52:30
$30?

00:52:32
Speaker 1: Wait, really.

00:52:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, europe, baby Europe.

00:52:36
Speaker 1: I need to go tell my wife I'm spending $30.

00:52:38
Speaker 2: You can do this Loads of cheap ride share programs

00:52:42
for the OneU and the TwoU Cube satellites.

00:52:45
Now one of the things we're going to be doing when we've

00:52:48
done some revenue generating is we're actually moving all of our

00:52:50
encryption into the literal cloud.

00:52:53
We're going to be launching our own CubeSat.

00:52:55
No, we're not using Starlink, we're going to be deploying our

00:52:58
own system.

00:52:58
We are not going to be sitting in the low orbital area either.

00:53:03
We're going for something a little more interesting.

00:53:05
We're also designing satellite counterprotective, satellite

00:53:12
counteroffensive capabilities into the CubeSat as well,

00:53:15
because it seems like satellite defense is going to have to be a

00:53:18
thing now.

00:53:18
So you have to design that.

00:53:21
But the reality is, is space deployment of technology into

00:53:24
space?

00:53:25
Is it within?

00:53:26
If you can afford to buy a car, you can afford to do a

00:53:29
satellite launch.

00:53:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is.

00:53:33
That's really fascinating, because that's exactly like what

00:53:36
I'm working on my PhD for is actually setting up.

00:53:39
Speaker 2: Oh, well, okay, we need to hit me up after this,

00:53:41
because if you're doing a PhD and you've already got your PhD

00:53:45
funding, we could possibly do a co-lab project there, because we

00:53:49
actually wanted to launch this fairly soon.

00:53:51
The idea would have been to launch a converter Kubernetes

00:53:55
server into one self-contained device, run it with solar and

00:53:59
then its own battery and then get it up there and then see if

00:54:03
we can maintain communications between Vox Messenger and

00:54:07
between Vox Messenger sender receiver using that satellite

00:54:10
connection and making sure that we have key handling running at

00:54:13
a speed that is commensurate to what we have here on Earth.

00:54:16
And if it is, we would be going full beans into deployment of a

00:54:19
full bloody constellation.

00:54:22
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, yeah, we'll definitely.

00:54:24
We'll definitely talk more about this then and you know, I

00:54:28
I absolutely want to have you back on.

00:54:30
Speaker 2: I love space stuff.

00:54:31
I mean I literally play like I put Kerbal Space Program after

00:54:36
Civilization 5 is my biggest played game.

00:54:39
I think I've got like 600, 700 hours on Civilization 5 and then

00:54:42
Kerbal is like six.

00:54:43
He's like five or 600 on that.

00:54:45
I love that thing.

00:54:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, I started to get into KSP2 recently and I

00:54:50
like I carefully.

00:54:52
I carefully have to play it because it's like all right,

00:54:55
this is way too addictive.

00:54:56
I have an 11 month old like I need to be doing other things

00:55:00
than killing these Kerbal's, you know oh my God, you see, that's

00:55:03
what my kids do.

00:55:04
Speaker 2: I have not killed a Kerbal yet.

00:55:05
I literally do proper space missions.

00:55:07
Man, I'm really.

00:55:08
I do the pen and paper working out working out my Delta V,

00:55:12
because I can't trust the calculator, and I actually work

00:55:14
out how my vehicle is going to operate under pressure, load and

00:55:17
stuff.

00:55:18
Oh my God, we play it so differently.

00:55:20
Speaker 1: My space program has a very robust astronaut pipeline

00:55:24
.

00:55:26
Speaker 2: I just think that could be the consumer caps list

00:55:29
model of space bearing in the future.

00:55:31
Speaker 1: Right, awesome.

00:55:34
Well, jb, you know I don't want to keep you beyond.

00:55:37
I know people have other commitments and whatnot, but you

00:55:40
know I really appreciate you coming on.

00:55:41
I'm going to pass the conversation and, like I'm

00:55:45
immediately going to be scheduling you to come back on,

00:55:47
like maybe next week.

00:55:48
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, I'm all over that.

00:55:49
Hell yeah, I'll be here, awesome.

00:55:53
Speaker 1: Well, you know, before I let you go, how about

00:55:54
you tell my audience you know where they could find you, where

00:55:56
they could find your company that we didn't even talk about,

00:56:00
you know, and all that information that they may want

00:56:02
to learn more about?

00:56:04
Speaker 2: Okay.

00:56:04
Well, if you want to join the Secure Revolution, to get

00:56:07
Voxcript Vox Messenger, all you got to do is type in Vox

00:56:10
Messenger into the Android Play Store or into Google and you'll

00:56:14
find it.

00:56:15
It's just there.

00:56:15
The website is vox-messengerapp .

00:56:18
You can find our crypto ads app at also the Google Play Store

00:56:23
just by typing in Vox Crypto.

00:56:24
We are coming to iOS on both very soon, but iOS is a very

00:56:28
different animal and it does take a little pain, hardship and

00:56:31
a lot of money to get there.

00:56:34
In technologies, my spatial recording if you want to have

00:56:37
the Adobe Premiere of end-to-end spatial video recording so you

00:56:42
can make your own 3D films and then make money getting them

00:56:44
onto Apple for the Apple Vision Pro, then check out

00:56:48
spatialscan3dcom, you know.

00:56:50
Or just type in JBWB2020 into Twitter and you'll find me.

00:56:56
I'm always there.

00:56:57
I'm also always streaming in the background while I'm working

00:57:01
.

00:57:01
Maybe I'll be streaming some music.

00:57:03
You can always jump in and message me.

00:57:04
I will try to answer and I'm on LinkedIn.

00:57:09
Again, my name is very unique JB Web Benjamin or John Brunel Web

00:57:12
Benjamin.

00:57:12
Trust me, you'll find it.

00:57:13
It's only me that comes up in a Google search.

00:57:16
I mean, I did say at the beginning of this.

00:57:18
My parents must have hated me for giving me a name like that

00:57:21
in Birmingham in the 1980s, but it does mean that my SEO is on

00:57:26
point.

00:57:26
So you can find me just by typing in my name and my

00:57:29
telephone number is out there.

00:57:31
So, if you find it, text me or reach out to me on Vox Messenger

00:57:34
.

00:57:34
You may not get a reply straight away, but you will.

00:57:36
I'm a firm believer in being accountable and transparent.

00:57:41
Speaker 1: Awesome.

00:57:41
Well, thanks JB for coming on and thanks everyone for

00:57:45
listening to this episode.

00:57:46
I hope you enjoyed our conversation.

00:57:48
I'll definitely be having JB back on.